Paul Naton with his CR/Naton Speed Runner: second fastest time at the World Speed Trials, Richland Washington, 1999.
	Launching CHK Fonix F3.
	Vintage shot of designer Charlie Richardson about to launch Naton's Raider for a heat at the World Soaring Jamboree, 1994.
	Naton hand catching a DHLG
	Shrike maiden, a gift from Harris Nelson for doing a lot of test flying.
	Naton's video-equipped CR Raider takes to the sky over Torrey Pines.
	Naton flies his 1/3.5 molded Discus CS in huge air at Peterson Butte Oregon, 2005.
	Naton reads his favorite soaring magazine Aufwind with flying buddy and real German Dieter Mahlein.
	Charlie Richarson and Paul Naton battling in the finals of the World Soaring Jamboree Slope Race at Eagle Butte, 1994. (from Flying Models magazine)
	Screenshots from Endless Lift 1 and 2: 1. Somewhere in Mexico 2. Somewhere in the U.S. 3. Davenport racing 4. Torry Pines racing
	Photos/Planes by Naton: 1. Fonix in winter 2. Nelson Shrike at Torrey Pines 3. Stork 4. Trinity 5. Peterson Butte, Oregon 6. Contender

JW: You've been involved with RC sailplanes for a long time, but didn't you start off in full-scale sailplanes as a teenager? Or was there something even before that?

PN: I've really been an aviation and glider aficionado all my life. The first time my dad launched one of those Guillows balsa gliders and it floated way farther than it should have, I was smitten. My dad also had a few gliding books on the bookshelf which had lots of pictures of classic German gliders of the 30's and post WW-2 pre-fiber glass ships. I have about 30 hours in various full scale gliders, and started lessons when I was 12 at the old Fremont Gliderport and at Calistoga (California). Never got all the way through training, but I think I like R/C better. No stress, no feeling like you might die suddenly if you screw up.

JW: I can dig that! Though I'd still like to get my full-scale glider license someday.

What was your first experience with RC?

PN: I went to UC San Diego for my art training, and Torrey Pines was right across the street. I was surfing Black's Beach a lot and the best place to check the break was right at the glider shack so I was always watching the hanggliders and R/C guys flying. Being a dead broke and time-poor college student, I could not afford a plane at the time but it seemed like it would be a cool sport to do when the waves were blown out, which was nearly all the time.
My real motivation for learning to fly RC was watching Charlie Richardson doing high speed aerobatics on a big-air day. I had stopped by the cliffs to watch some full scales cliff cruising and saw this lone guy flying faster than I had seen anyone fly. Most of the planes I had seen fly were gas bags and a few scale ships, but Charlie had out one of his early wingeron planes, the Saveron, and was doing super clean aerobatics and high speed rolls. I was completely blown away, I had no idea that slope soaring gliders could be flown like that. A life changing moment in a big way. Bought a plane, crashed said plane, crashed again, but finally learned how to do it. Self-taught the hard way.

JW: So Charlie Richardson was the spark. That's interesting. He's such a legend now, with all those classic designs (Turbo, Blazer, Climmax, Renegade, Raider, Fun 1, etc., etc.). Did you start talking to him right away or was he too intimidating?

PN: I was in his face with lots of questions, mostly stupid novice ones I'm sure. However, it wasn't until a few months later that I found out from the Torrey locals who he was. I started talking to Charlie and became friends. He was just starting his kit business and I offered to design his box labels and logos in trade for a built Turbo ST. My first aileron plane was that Turbo. --

JW: Then he made a wingeron version of the Turbo, right?

PN: Yeah, the Turbo S was his first CR Aircraft kit release, though he had done kits like the Savage and Son of Savage in the early 80's.

JW: So, was all your early slope experience at Torrey, or did you check out other slopes in Southern California?

PN: Most of my early training was done at the Del Mar cliffs at the far north end of the Torrey bluffs. Decent lift and nice sand to land on if you sank out. It was a while before I flew at the proper Torrey Pines as I was introduced to a rebel band of slopers who flew at the 'Farms', a good unregulated site owned by the University and about a third of a mile south of the gliderport. These guys shunned the Torrey Pines Gulls Club and AMA, and risked shoot down as the two sites were in radio overlap. Learned a lot flying there, but I started flying legal with the pro boys, and Charlie took me to the other S.Cal sites like Yorba Linda, Temple, Dana Point and others.

JW: As I was getting into flying there were breakthrough moments where I realized I could do something new with the plane. Sometimes I'd visualize what I wanted to do at night and then try it the next day (I still do this). Do you remember any breakthrough moments as you were learning to fly?

PN: Oh ya, many of those moments. The first launch and land at Torrey, catching my first thermal with an HLG, first time winning a slope race, finally 'getting' what computer radio programming meant to flight control. The visualization thing you mentioned is so important to success in this sport, and it's really no different than using that for any other sporting endevour. You are good pilot when you can pre-visualize your flight path 3 moves ahead. Your brain and imagination are the best slope simulators you have.

JW: Ok, so let's talk about flying a little. For me, a fair amount of each flight is a matter of repetition. If I want to improve my eight point rolls I literally go back and forth dozens of times just doing eight-pointers from both sides. Do you have a similar approach?

PN: Repetition is the only way to learn smooth flying, whether its slope or thermal flying. I think practice is the most over looked part of soaring. So many guys obsess over latest planes, the latest servos, weights, and all that crap, yet they do not put in the flight hours and disciplined practice time to improve how they fly. Its always tempting to fun fly every time you get out to the field, but that only gets you so far at improving your skills. If you take just a whole flying session to work on one or two moves, your flying will improve. It's the muscle memory thing, like with any sport. You should have a goal of at least 10 moves you can do perfectly without thinking about it, going right or left or whatever. Once you learn those 10, work on another 10, then you can string those moves together, and bang, you are flying like one of the pros. When I was learning to slope race, I spent 2 years doing laps, experimenting with ballast and turning techniques, until starting and turning on the flag was second nature. Practice is what won races for me.

JW: When did the racing start at Torrey?

PN: I'm not sure when races were first run at Torrey, but I heard about pylon races held in the late 70's or so. The first race I saw was one of the ISR season races, like 1989 era, and I was blown away with what I saw, I just had to do it. Wan't sure how, as I only flew 60" planes, and these guys were racing big stuff, mostly home brews, and these racers were intimidating. There is a whole long racing history at Torrey, but no more. Just happened to be there during the glory days.

JW: Talk a little about the history you know. When you got to it, it seems that it was really heating up - you, Charlie Richardson, Brian McLean. Who else was there: Daryl Perkins? Joe Wurts?

PN: The ISR scene was very active in the late 80's and early 90's, both around S.Cal but in Northern California too. There were so many talents. Joe Wurts and Daryl Perkins were the main slope racing gods, but there were other guys like you mentioned, and included Steve Neu, Tomas Pils, Jerry Bridgeman, Steve Condon, and some old time ISR guys like James Turner, and Ray Kuntz. There was a regular series nearly every weekend and venues included Torrey, Yorba Linda, Hughs Hill, and my favorite track, the Miguelito Site above Lompoc. I first started racing a ballasted Turbo ST in the sportsman class, got my ass kicked many times, but started to win a few even against some of the bigger planes. The sportsman class had about every plane you could imagine racing in it.

While Charlie and I were doing the big plane circuit, we had the idea to start racing the 60" class at Torrey during the weekends that the ISR was off. There were a lot of 60" span planes flying at Torrey, and the races became popular right off. It was cheap to get into, the course shorter, the planes more evenly matched less mid-airs. Most guys raced Turbos and home brews at first. Charlie had seen what worked best in the ISR races and came up with the then all-wood Renegade with an RG-14 wing. He won the next few race meets by such a wide margin that all of planes we were racing became obsolete. At first guys were pissed, but this started an arms race which was ultimately good for soaring (and Charlie's business), as most of the great designs you see today came from that 60" race period. The McClean Vindicator, Composite Renegade, Harris Nelson Shrike, The Shark. There were so many Renegades racing that it was like a one-design contest. The racing was way more competitive than the ISR league as the planes were so closely matched. The racing was more tactical and close, not just a ballast and survive contest. At the peak, we had 50-60 pilots showing up for 60" races. Charlie and I put a lot of time into organizing the races which helped keep the interest going for about 4 years. Racing at Torrey died out slowly around about 1996; I left for my Endless Lift US tour, and Charlie got burned out and was winding down his plane business to get into vintage motorcycles. I'm not sure any racing will return to Torrey. It sure should.

JW: For these scenes to survive it always requires one or two very devoted individuals to keep it organized and maintain the momentum. Usually life circumstances take over and people move on to other things. It's a shame, I'd love to fly some 60" MoM!

PN: Hopefully someone will get motivated and organize some 60" man-on-man. No foam!

JW: We'll talk more about flying in a bit, but since you mentioned Endless Lift, how did that all come about? Why did you take that first trip? Did you intend to create a video for sale from the beginning or did the idea for that come after the trip?

PN: Yes, Endless Lift. It was one of those times in your life you just have to take a break and see the world. I had the money, my own business, a new girl friend (now wife) and the time. Why not go? I really wanted to see more of America. Took off in 1996 in the now famous VW camper, with 2 Climmax HLG's, a Renegade, and for a while a Raider F3, and whole bunch of camping crap. One splurge was to buy a Sony Hi-8 camcorder, which had incredible image quality for the time. I had been shooting lots of flying video for Charlie to use in trade shows, and I figured I might get some cool footage along the trip. The idea for the film did not get going until well into the journey. I kept saying to Aimee, "this is cool footage, kind of like the Endless Summer movie". I knew other people would like to see these crazy flying spots and come along on this trip vicariously. Aimee was a good sport filming the action as she was not always into it. "Come on honey, there is this spot were vultures are soaring a tree line". "Not again," she would moan.

Once back to civilization, I hired a local producer to help get the film digitally together, which in 1997 technology was real cutting edge. A Mac Ci, one 18 gig drive, which was not nearly enough. We managed to get the 55 minute cut together and released it on VHS in 1998, not really knowing if I would get my production costs back. Well, it did and it continues to sell on DVD. I was in the film business kind of by accident. If I ever get some down time, I am going to redo the whole film in first generation, and add in lots of cool stuff I had to cut in the first version. But hey, might as well hit the road and do another trip. With the internet, I now have lots of friends and about 100 slopes and such to visit around the U.S.

JW: RadioCarbonArt has become such a great resource for so many RC sailplane enthusiasts. You've certainly exploited the old "a picture is worth a thousand words" adage and at this point you've covered a huge spectrum of the sport; slope, thermal, flying, building - so what's next for RCA?

PN: What's next? More of the same. Our focus has shifted from the entertainment/coverage films to the how-to series. Why? Its because that's what people need and want. There is so much involved with getting into soaring, so much to try, but so much to learn. If I had the DVDs we produce available to me when I got started, it would have saved me years of trial and error. My current goal is to have a whole series of instructionals that will be available to anyone wanting to learn more about the sport, covering every aspect of flying and building. I have released 5 training DVDs so far with more on the way. There is sooo much to cover, and at so many levels, should keep busy for years! I started with more general soaring subjects, but will focus later on more niche interests like DS and HLG competitions. I hope to also get some of the sport's top flyers to do individual training workshops, sharing their expertise, and offering a different perspective than my own. I really love to hear from customers who have made major break-throughs in there abilities after studying one of my DVDs. Helping others to enjoy the sport at a new level is what it's all about for me.

JW: Ok, let's get back to the actual flying side of things. You mentioned a bunch of the pilots who were competing back in the 80's and 90's in California. Care to take a moment to describe some of these characters?

PN: Joe Wurts - He's won EVERYTHING more than once. Soaring Demi-God. Daryl Perkins - Many time ISR champion, only 4 straight times world F3B champion. Steve Neu - F5B world champ, electric pioneer. (Neu Motors) Tomas Pils - crazy German guy, very fast, also World F5B champion, holds current WR for F5B labs (51). Jerry Bridgeman - US F3B/F5B team member, designed the Snipe wingeron. Steve Condon - RnR factory pilot, master soaring thumb. James Turner - ISR champ. Ray Kuntz - Perhaps one of the original ISR founders, old school racer, famous for home made sleds that tore the wings off competitors, still races today. Brian McLean - racer and plane designer/builder, designed the Vindicator, Vector, Viper, Exxtremes, other 'really go fast' planes. There were many more guys, these names stick with me.

JW: So now I know what they've all done, what I really want to know is what it's like to fly with them. For example, you're flying fully ballasted unlimited slopers in a tight race with Wurts - what kind of personality does he bring to the race? All these guys must have different styles, different mental approaches to the race and to flying in general, right? And how does your style fit into all this?

PN: Racing with the top guys is an experience hard to explain in words. Nothing is more exciting in soaring than racing in big air fully ballasted with 4 planes on the course. Your automatic flying skills had to be on, hesitate or get nervous on the sticks for a second, and you're done. Each racer did have a style, some would always run low, some liked the high line, some were always turning on your light, just inviting a mid-air. These were all things you could take advantage of in a race. Even a cool-headed competitor like Joe Wurts could be rattled into making an error if you pushed him hard. But you take Daryl Perkins, that guy is a slope racing machine, makes very few errors. If he shows up, he wins. He's the only top guy I never beat in a race. His planes were always a step faster than mine, he usually built and designed his own too.

The top guys always studied each other, and I sure did my studying, like a pitcher watching batters. You could pick out little things that could be exploited, like a guy always being a few seconds late at the start, a tendency to go real long on the first turn, or fly too low to early. If you watched the races, you could really tune in to the conditions and the techniques that were going to win races that day. The guys who were always fixing their planes or shooting the shit in the pits were at a big disadvantage. I would time the wind cycles at inland sites, and watch to see if the high or low line seemed fastest. Watching how much lead the top guys were loading was important. I always came to a heat with a game plan, and good knowledge of how the other guys in the heat were doing. If there are 2 slower guys, and 1 guy who is in the top 5, you race that top guy, and avoid flying near the other guys. You want to get between the next turn and the guy you want to beat, and use the others guys as blockers to slow him down. Racing always was so much more than flying from turn to turn the fastest. You had to go for consistency over raw speed and lap times. Sometimes just surviving 6 heats in strong conditions was all it took to place in the top 3. More guys get killed just doing stupid landing mistakes than mid-airs.

I always broke a race into parts, first being the plane prep, being charged, right radio set up for the conditions, and ballast choice. Next part is the launch and climb out, getting out to the spot of max lift for the most altitude you can and setting up the plane in the right position for a good high-energy start. Next is racing the first half of the race, gauging turns, staying high on the line, adjusting for changing lift, and avoiding traffic. Next is the last 2 lap sprint, burning a lower line if needed for a passing move, or staying way high if you have a good lead with slower pilots, flying conservative to finish clean. Then landing safely with no damage. I always tried to pre-visualize each part of the race before the heat, and stick to the plan as much as possible.

JW: Lots of great racing tips in there. I'm surprised the NorCal/SoCal F3F camps have never really gotten a consistent league together. Bunches of great pilots and it just seems natural that there would be at least 3 or 4 races with the whole group every year. Have you heard of anything like that happening?

JW: Let's talk a little about your current flying situation. You moved to the Northwest at some point - what's the flying like up there?

PN: I've been flying up here in Northern Oregon since 1998, and its been a great experience being up norte. I miss the concentrated flying scene of S. Cal, but I don't miss the insanity of living there. I had flown the coastal sites like Cape Blanco and Washington's Eagle Butte many times, so I knew there was no lack of slopes. My local site is Peterson Butte, which is this magical flying site about 20 minutes east of my house. When I first checked out the site, it did not look that impressive, but it turns out this place has a wide variety of great soaring conditions and the lift is usually awesome. The coolest thing about Peterson is that it gets true wave conditions in south winds over 18 kts, and often a clean pre-compression wave forms about a 1/4 mile out, with smooth lift way out over the valley. Also, this is the spot where I discovered front-side DS, using shear-lines formed by the contours of the hill. I keep discovering new insane DS lines in the most unlikely places on the hill. I have some cool footage of me DSing these shear-lines, and it looks impossible, with the wind in my face, but the plane cranking laps. You will never go much over 100 using these small shear-lines, but its great fun in light air when regular sloping is a bit dull. There are lots of unexplored slopes in the state with most of the huge potential being the eastern outback areas. The coast here has been a let down, as most of the cliffs face west, but the prevailing wind direction is south or southeast in the winter, and dead north in the summer. There are a few west days, but Cape Blanco is the only consistant coastal site in Oregon.

JW: Does Dieter Mahlein live near you? Do you know what he's been doing since he scaled back the Shredair business?

PN: Dieter? He's my main flying buddy. We are at Peterson any time its good, which is most often during the weekdays when most guys work regular jobs. He is doing Mac consulting part time and still does exotic electric parts as Shredair. When the Euro went sky high, it made it tough to import planes and make any money. He just got back from a month in Columbia checking out some slopes there. Believe it or not, there are slopers in Bogata!

JW: I know, they've asked for JART plans! Hmmmm, that gives me an idea for another interview...

BTW, can you describe a couple of your favorite slopes? Obviously, you're having fun at Peterson - what others have made for superior slope experiences and what were your favorite moments?

PN: So many good slopes, so many good times. For shear big wave surfing, Eagle Butte, Washington. The cool thing about this slope is that it has strong winds, nearly perfect shape, and huge thermals in the summer. This place is like the Waimea Bay of sloping. I have had so many incredible sessions there. Perhaps the best was the 1994 World Soaring Jamboree which was this crazy week long soaring meet that featured everything from Unlimited slope racing to a pro HLG contest. On the fun fly day, we had 75 kts of wind at Eagle, and I have yet to see so much carnage in one day. I flew a super heavy Renegade and the weird thing was that you could dive at 70 degrees vertical down towards the valley and the plane was reaching terminal air speed. But even though the indicated speed was about 120, the plane looked like it was moving real slow downhill, like in slow motion. But pull back on the stick a little bit and slowly load some G's, and the plane would climb forever. Just speck going upwind. The next day was dead calm but huge dust devils were ripping up the pits and ridge top. Charlie Richardson and I handlaunched our Renegades into the backs of the bigger devils and skied them out. I mean I could only throw the 'Gade about 25 feet up. The day after that, it blew 25-30 for the Unlimited slope race. At full ballast, you could get so high in 30 seconds that you had to hit full flaps to keep from going higher. Lots of planes blew up in the start dive. Now that was a week of great sloping.

#2 on my list is Kahakaloa (sp?) on Maui. I'm not sure its OK to slope there any more due to its on private land. 400' slope, warm strong trade winds, no crowds, ocean view, tall grass to land on, what could be better? I spent a month flying that place and surrounding spots. Kahakaloa is were I got my first taste of dynamic soaring, well before Joe got the technical aspects of DS technique worked out. On my first landing approach, I flew my Contender well behind the slope, about 400 feet back, split s'ed back towards the cliff, and dove low to bleed some speed and check out the turbulence. There was some chop (now know as boundary layer) at about 150' but once the plane got lower, it just picked up speed, and the air smoothed out. The plane whistled above the grass and back out into the lift with way more speed and energy than it should have. The guy I was flying with was video taping and I said "Did you see that? The plane went out faster than it went in". I did another run behind the cliff edge, and the same thing happened again. By turning hard right when I hit the vertical air at the cliff edge, the plane would really accelerate, and you could keep this speed all the way around the back, turn, and repeat. No 150mph speeds or anything, but you could keep doing these power circles all day, front to back. Some of this footage is in the film Endless Lift. If you slope fly, Hawaii is a must visit destination.

JW: Sure makes me want to get up the Six-Pack this year. And then a trip to Hawaii, of course.

Slope sailplanes have changed so much in the last 20 years. And yet certain things have remained the same. Talk a little about the developments you've seen in building techniques and materials, and where you think things might be heading from here.

Flying techniques have also changed. What were the breakthroughs as you've seen them? And do you see more changes coming?

PN: I was very lucky to have started in soaring when I did. The late 80's was sure the beginning of a new wave of design. Now it seems the designs have leveled out a bit, with small refinements and more specialization to meet specific tasks or requirements. The biggest thing in the last few years has been with the moulded planes and the great strides made in both quality and weight. We are spoiled now with so many choices, EPP to carbon mouldies. Read a soaring magazine from 1990, and see how few kits or ARFs were available. Then go to the SoaringUSA web site now.
Here are a few predictions for the future, and what I would like to see in the next 10 years. I think rapid prototyping will be used more and more for creating and testing new planes, which will eliminate what's left of the guess work in design. Even though the airfoil program says the wing will work great in these conditions, you really have to build one and check reality. Its still an expensive process to create CNC molds and the maker is taking a big risk in making a test model. Some planes just don't work out no matter how good they look on paper. The rapid prototype machines coming on line are going to have a profound effect on model design and may be part of every modeler's shop soon. I can't wait.

For slope planes, I want more wingerons! I want a cheap fast model with moulded wings and stabs. One thing I would like to experiment with are UHWL slopers. UHWL- acronym for ultra high wing loading. You have that now with the Fermin type PSS models, with 30-40 oz loadings and designs like the Rodent and JART type models built heavy. Now this is fine, but with all this weight you need a strong structure a fair amount of wing area. Landings are high energy which equals damage. Heavy planes just can't turn or maneuver tight especially in lower compression conditions. So lets go the other way, making a light airframe, but reducing the wing area, increasing the aspect ratio, reducing span if needed. You can still have a high loading for speed, a clean airframe and greatly reduced induced drag from the wing. Think of a cliff swallow, large body on tiny high aspect wings, over all weight is low, but drag is none, and maneuvering is very fast. I have some sketches of this type of plane which I will build some day. Doug Boyd (Winch Doc) has this Nelson Shrike with a set of 58" carbon wings which are half the chord of the stock wings, and a higher aspect ratio. While I have only seen this plane fly once, it was impressive in light air and the added loading did not effect light air performance much. The reduced wing area/high A/R thing is working well with the latest competition HLG's. They are getting higher launches (less induced drag) stiffer wings, and lighter over all weight. Slow speed flight is compromised a bit because the planes like to fly faster, like a sloper. That's what we want right? I can imagine this type of plane flying very fast in medium conditions at small slopes, with super fast acceleration and turning along with great roll rates. Energy will come from low drag and not pure mass. At low Reynolds numbers, small high aspect wings make sense.

I think the DS guys may catch on to this idea too. At 250 mph, who needs all of that wing area? It just slows you down. The planes that are going 250-300 were really designed for standard soaring, just reinforced with lots of material to take the flight loads, but all of that material is in the wrong place for good inertial qualities. I think trying to make fast DS planes based on current designs, materials, and building techniques is not the right approach.

As I imagine a futuristic DS plane, it would have a milled metal or composite 3 dimensional space frame which incorporates the boom, wing attachment system with integrated spar, and avionics bay. The frame would take the flight loads, and not any part of the skin. The skin would be moulded to fit over the frame and would be removable and in a sense disposable. We try to make a stressed skin fuse with very little cross bracing, and no internal structure to prevent boom twist and bending. The wings would also incorporate a space frame, with a main spar combined with sub spars and perhaps integrated span-wise ribs, all machined from one material, perhaps an alloy, composite lay up, or advanced composite plastic. This is where the rapid proto machines will come in handy. Again, with avoiding using stressed skin technology, the wings should be much stiffer and still be light weight. I could see solid machined wings becoming the norm too, with the high aspect ratio and reduced wing area, you could go back to using a wingeron set up. High speed missiles use all moving surfaces, why not DS planes. Its going to be hard to get servos to fit into these skinny wings anyway. Flutter should be a non issue. We have these killer big high torque digital servos, why not use them for this application? Use a fuse spoiler to slow down so you don't need flaps. Of course some sort of flexible skin technology for camber changing and turning could be used too. Just thinking out loud here........

A few more thoughts on the future.........
Today's higher performance planes are so much better than 98% of the pilots flying them. I think figuring out how to teach and train people to fly these planes properly is going to be a challenge. Flight telemetry is going to be the next big thing, with real time speed and such during flight. Ludites will reject it, but guys who like to test and really know what's happening with trim, balance, and design changes will really benefit. I have not gotten into this stuff yet beyond an Alti2 altitude recorder, but I will be soon. And for flying techniques, finding new ways to use dynamic and micro burst energy to soar is only beginning to be explored. There are shear lines and gradients every where to be exploited and there are ways to extract energy and lift from convective currents that guys are only starting to understand and use. The incredible performance of today's F3 style planes are allowing pilots to explore these new ways to fly. Very few guys flying have an understanding of the energy patterns they fly in. You can extract energy from sink. Think about that. My crystal ball is getting a bit hazy now..........

JW: But it's a helluva crystal ball!

There's little doubt that CNC machining (and 3D modeling) will change the way RC planes are made as the technology becomes less expensive and more available to small shops. But for most of us that feels pretty far from our little garage shop. Do you have any ideas about scratch-building as it stands today? I'm interested in helping folks feel less intimidated by the processes of foam cutting/shaping, composite laminating, vacuum bagging, molding and other basic techniques that anyone can use to build up their own ideas.

PN: Scratch building will continue as it is unless some break through in materials comes along. I think that cheap CNC foam cutters will be widely available soon so guys can easily cut blanks for wings and fuse forms for scratch building exotic designs. The internet seems to be the big driver for scratch building. How cool is it to see a whole PSS plane take shape from start to finish on the Liftzone? That's some thing you did not see ten years ago. Your JART project has really propagated around the globe, and the sharing of info is really the key. It still takes dedication to round up all of the materials and put in the time learn all of the skills needed to build composite planes. I don't see that changing!

JW: Yep, it takes time and dedication to scratch build, no getting around it. I guess that explains the development of RTFs and ARFs. 

I like your point about the internet. When I got back into the sport in 1999 or so (after a 5 year hiatus) it was great to be able to contact people online. One of the first things I did was contact Craig Toutolmin through his website to ask about sloping in the Bay Area. He really helped me get up to speed quickly with local suppliers, flying sites, etc. 

Do you see any other developments with regard to the internet? Your website (www.radiocarbonart.com) is the hub of your RC video business - would you have been able to get that business going without it?

PN: The net has been so huge for small hobbies like soaring. When I got started, there was only the RC Soaring Digest and a few articles here and there in the regular model mags. If you didn't know some one local, there was no way to learn building or find out about the latest trends. I joined the RC Soaring Exchange mail group in 1997, and that was the hip soaring internet media stop to hear the latest product gossip. I'm still get the RCSE digests but the group has become more for thermal duration and F3J/B contests lately. Still a great resource though.
All of the personal soaring web sites and portals like the Liftzone have really kept soaring alive and growing not only for the users, but for all of those small vendors like myself. There is no way that my DVD business would exist without the net. We get orders from around the world and places totally unexpected like the Arab Emerates, Peru, Thailand, and the Canary Islands. Its the net. The disease of soaring is spreading around the planet helped by Cisco routers and Google. The online video thing is going crazy and I see this trend continuing to build. I posted a bunch of clips and trailers on the new RC Universe video site a few months ago and have gotten over 100,000 views already. I see our movies going online in the next few years, pay, download, watch, burn your own DVD. The sport needs all of this media exposure to grow and I will be working to make it so. Soaring TV? We can only hope. Its going to be user driven for now, but hopefully manufacturers will get involved too.

JW: You mentioned something I've considered even now. The "pay-to-view" model will certainly happen but at this point it's a little bit too hard to control copying. I imagine if anyone figures out what to do next it'll be RadioCarbonArt.

But when you talk about growing the sport I'll admit to some ambivalence: on the one hand I want to see more people get outside and do something other than drinkin', druggin', and watchin' TV and with the various aspects of building, flying, and community it's a great sport for young people. Plus the more people get involved in RC, especially soaring, the more R&D will be poured into technical improvements. On the other hand, I still remember the EPP revolution and how much irresponsible behavior I saw on the slopes a few years ago. Everyone and their uncle had a plane out there but there was no control - no checking of frequencies, no equipment maintenance, and a lot of guys didn't care whether the plane hit the ground or people or cars or dogs or anything! It's gotten better, but maybe you can talk about how you see the sport growing and the best way for that to happen?

PN: I would rather have quality instead of quantity. Or, it will get like surfing, 40 guys battling for the lift band, fights breaking out, extreme localism ...... oh ya, that's already happened. I think soaring will always be an esoteric activity enjoyed by those few who can appreciate the art and craft of it. It's fine with me if it stays that way. If you are going to get into soaring, you might as well do it right and learn all you can about technique. The more you learn, the more fun it is. I feel like I am only about 1/3 through my soaring journey at this point.

JW: Wow, 1/3! That's very interesting. You're already an accomplished pilot. Where do you see yourself going from here? Is it a matter of refinement and nuance?

PN: While I'm accomplished in a few disciplines of soaring, I have yet to do it all at the same level. Compared to a guy like Joe Wurts, a guy who can really do it all, and has the trophies to prove it, I have a ways to go. He is the only pilot I know that is truly a soaring master. I'd like to learn how to winch launch better, try F3J, and maybe even get back into TD. Then there is the whole building and design part of the sport. We all know guys who have incredible design and fabrication skills, and I'm NOT one of those guys. I'm still a rookie at scale aero-towing. And even thermaling, which I am extremely skilled at, I always feel I could be better at calling air, I am still humbled by the conditions so many times, there is so much skill and even luck involved, you'll just never master mother nature. Throw in the exploration of new sites, improving your 3-D aerobatic skills, cross country, etc., and you have a life time of goals to reach. It will stay fun for me for a long time as long as there is a challenge. --

JW: I'd like to talk about video and soaring. What kind of equipment to you use to shoot? Do you have more than one camera? Surely it's changed from that old Hi-8 camera!

PN: For shooting soaring footage, its more of the techniques you use than what equipment you use though a good camera makes a difference. All of my films have been shot on a Canon GL-1 which is a miniDV format prosumer grade camera. Its a three chip camera which also shoots in progressive scan mode so you can get different looks on video. Regular interlace mode is good for fast moving objects like planes, and progressive for scenery, interviews and low movement scenes. This camera is great for glider shooting because it has a back focus lens system which allows you to set the focus manually at full zoom, then pull back to wide angle without the focus changing. Not many cameras can do this. This way you avoid focus 'pump' which you see in virtually all of the online video guys shoot. I never shoot with auto-focus on. If your camera has a manual focus setting, use it. I like to shoot handheld if possible, but I have been working more with a tripod with a good zoom and focus controller.

I've got a small Canon camcorder for recording video from a lipstick camera and for B roll shots. Other gear includes different mics, a set of wireless UHF mics, a DAT sound recorder, and a 2.4 gightz remote video transmitter for air to air shots. For studio gear, A dual processor G Mac, 500 gigs of drive space for clips, an audio mixer board, and some other gear. I edit in Final Cut Pro, graphics are done in Photoshop, and the DVDs are compressed with Apple's compressor, and mastered using IDVD or DVD Studio Pro.

Here are some quick shooting tips for you guys.
1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. 11.	Learn to use the manual focus Avoid over zooming in and out For slope shots, find the calm spots on the hill, and brace your body the best you can - sitting down works great. Clean your lens. At the slope clean every few minutes if needed. Adjust the exposure manually if you can, and use higher shutter speeds, 500-2000. Sport mode works good on auto cameras. Change your shooting angle every few minutes. Get close and wide shoots, including a pan of the location, include pilot. Use the wind attenuation setting for the mic, or get one of those hairy wind muffs. Anticipate the planes actions, let it fly from one side of the frame to the other to reduce panning. Don't shoot in widescreen unless your camera has native support for this, you often loose lots of resolution in this mode. For posting Windows Media 9 web clips, deinterlace video if possible first, use 2 pass Bit Rate VBR for video compression, 15 fps, 320x240 size, bit rate 150k second, and for audio, VBR quality, WMV 9 audio codec, CD or lower quality.

A few people have asked me when we are going to High Definition. It will happen for us in a year or so, but its a major investment in hardware as everything in my studio would have to be replaced. HD is over-kill for our how-to series, but is going to be cool for field work. The problem is that the HD has to be down sampled for DVD any way, and its going to be a long while before any one has HD DVD or Blu-Ray players in any number.

JW: Great advice - it's fun to shoot stuff, but it certainly takes some extra effort to get professional results.

PN: Even when you learn to shoot, the cream to crap ratio is always high! Tape is cheap.

JW: Your website and packaging always look so professional and as a freelance graphic designer this naturally catches my eye. You mentioned going to art school - do you do all the package design yourself? The videos also have some very nice illustrations and animations - do you create all those as well? Would you relate design and flying in any way?

PN: All of the art work you see with our products is designed in-house. That really means designed by me, the lone artist in our small company. Although most of my formal training is in fine art, I did study design, photography and video. About the time I graduated, the computer was starting to become useable for doing graphics and fine art and I saw immediately that this was going to to be THE tool for artists in the future, I jumped into the digital abyss right away. I did free lance graphic design for corporate clients for a long time and did a stint as art director for a high end magazine. This stuff bored me to tears though it was good money. Doing the design projects for Radio Carbon Art products is a blast because I can do what ever I want and it's really satisfying work. Designing information graphics for the DVDs has been a big challenge for me along with script writing, it's really hard making these technical subjects understandable without being boring.

Soaring is art, the planes flying functional sculptures. The visual aspect of the planes in flight is hugely important to me, I won't fly or own planes I think are unattractive. I try to present this art form in the product designs as much as possible.

JW: You probably won't be able to answer this, but what is your favorite among the RCA videos?

For the how-to's – Performance Tuning.
For fun, I would say Just Want To Fly, though I think Electric Revolution might be my best film technically.

I really don't watch my films after I make them, I'm too burnt after editing to care anymore. Its really hard for me to watch the ones I'm in especially.

JW: I've seen almost all of your videos but I have most of them on VHS. Just Want to Fly is certainly a favorite of mine. Time to start getting some DVDs!

The JART devotees will be unhappy if I don't at least ask one JART question. Soooooo, any thoughts about our little toy?

PN: I have been a JART fan from afar. I've been watching all of the video clips on the Liftzone from SF and I'm impressed with its flying qualities. A nice mix of energy retention and roll rate along with good looks. Looks are everything as far as I am concerned, I won't buy planes that I don't like the look of, they have to make me balls tingle! A nice thing about the JART design is that guys can build it light or heavy, and small variations in the lines won't effect flight performance. Your open source idea for the design is brilliant, just look what has happened with the design so far round the world. Its going to be cool to see its evolutionary progress.

JW: Thanks, you've certainly hit on the key points of my idea for the thing. We'll see where it all goes.

Paul, I want to thank you for your generosity in this interview. There is so much good stuff here. I know we've only scratched the surface but we should probably start wrapping it up for now. Any other thoughts before we sign off?

PN: I've had a great time with this. You don't read interviews with the sport's movers and shakers very often, I hope you will continue with the series. It will be inspirational for sure. If anyone has any questions for me about the interview or my films, they can e-mail me through the radiocarbonart.com web site. Thanks for the opportunity Reed.